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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2025-09-11 Regular Police Oversight Commission Minutes of the Regular Meeting of the Police Oversight Commission !a�w� war r'4 yw September 11 , 2025 TELECONFERENCE INFORMATION: Pursuant to Government Code Section 54953(b), Commissioner Carlos Perea will participate in the meeting via teleconference from Hotel Villa Florida Puebla(lobby)in Puebla, Mexico, Blvd Atlixcayotl, Acceso a la Zona Angelopolis 1100, 72810 San Andres Cholula, Pue.The Agenda will be posted at the teleconference location and any member of the public wishing to address the legislative body directly may do so at the teleconference location pursuant to Government Code Section 54954.3. REGULAR MEETING - 5:00 P.M. CITY COUNCIL CHAMBER 22 Civic Center Plaza Santa Ana, CA 92701 CALL TO ORDER MINUTES: Chair Carpenter called the meeting to order at 5:03 P.M. ATTENDANCE Commission Members Evangeline Gawronski Amalia Mejia Carlos Perea Nadin Said Danny Vega Vice Chair Gabriel Castillo Laughton Chair Keith Carpenter Staff Members Independent Oversight Director T. Jack Morse Jr. Deputy City Manager Sylvia Vazquez Deputy Chief Roland Andrade Police Commander Jorge Lopez Assistant City Attorney Jonathan Martinez Recording Secretary Abigail Y. Alcala POLICE OVERSIGHT COMMISSION 1 SEPTEMBER 11, 2025 ROLL CALL MINUTES: Recording Secretary Abigail Y. Alcala conducted roll call. Commissioners Gawronski, Mejia, Perea, Said, and Vega, Vice Chair Castillo Laughton, and Chair Carpenter were present. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE MINUTES: Chair Carpenter led the Pledge of Allegiance. PUBLIC COMMENTS—Public comments will be held during the beginning of the meeting for all comments on agenda items. Members of the public may provide comments on any agenda or non-agenda items within the subject matter jurisdiction of the commission. MINUTES: The following individuals addressed the Commission in person: 1. David Pulido spoke regarding proposed changes to the Police Oversight Commission Ordinance, requested justice for Noe Rodriguez, and an independent investigation regarding the incident. 2. Abraham Quintana requested justice for Noe Rodriguez, an independent investigation regarding the incident, and the commission explore police-related ordinances implemented in other cities. 3. Carina Munoz spoke regarding proposed changes to the Police Oversight Commission Ordinance. 4. Emma Gottfried spoke regarding proposed changes to the Police Oversight Commission Ordinance, requested justice for Noe Rodriguez, and an independent investigation regarding the incident. 5. Bulamaro Vicente spoke regarding proposed changes to the Police Oversight Commission Ordinance. POLICE OVERSIGHT COMMISSION 2 SEPTEMBER 11, 2025 CONSENT CALENDAR RECOMMENDED ACTION: Approve staff recommendations on the following Consent Calendar Items: 1 and 2. MINUTES:At 5:21 P.M., the Consent Calendar was considered. MOTION: Vice Chair Castillo Laughton moved to approve Consent Calendar Item Nos. 1 and 2, seconded by Commissioner Vega. The motion carried, 7-0, by the following roll call vote: AYES: COMMISSIONER GAWRONSKI, COMMISSIONER MEJIA, COMMISSIONER PEREA, COMMISSIONER SAID, COMMISSIONER VEGA, VICE CHAIR CASTILLO LAUGHTON, CHAIR CARPENTER NOES: NONE ABSTAIN: NONE ABSENT: NONE Status: 7—0 — Pass 1. Excused Absences Recommended Action: Excuse the absent members. 2. Minutes from the Regular Meetings of August 14, 2025. Recommended Action: Approve minutes. ***END OF CONSENT CALENDAR*** STUDY SESSION MINUTES:At 5:22 P.M., the Study Session was considered. 3. Police Oversight Commission Ordinance Work Study Session Recommended Action: Receive presentation on the Police Oversight Commission Ordinance and provide input to staff. MINUTES: Deputy City Manager Sylvia Vazquez stated the commissions' input would be presented to the City Council at a future meeting. Independent Oversight Director T. Jack Morse gave a presentation regarding the Police Oversight Commission ordinance highlighting the hybrid oversight model: investigating incidents and problematic patterns. Commissioner Gawronski asked whether Santa Ana has an investigative process to determine crime percentages and community support in cities that have seen policy changes implemented. POLICE OVERSIGHT COMMISSION 3 SEPTEMBER 11, 2025 Independent Oversight Director Morse stated there was both trust and distrust segments of the public and that using a pattern-and-practice method to identify persistent, ongoing problems and implement solutions. Deputy Chief Roland Andrade clarified the Police Department has not used an investigative process to determine crime percentages. Commissioner Mejia asked whether the hybrid model's parallel investigation would apply to all cases and if the Independent Oversight Director must wait for the Police Department to finish their investigations. She prioritized improving community relations with Internal Affairs, cautioned against limiting the ordinance, voiced concerns about the mandatory ride-along, and recommended funding police lawsuits via Police Officers Association (POA) contract changes. Independent Oversight Director Morse stated the hybrid model allows for independent investigations of individual incidents that are considered of great bodily harm. He clarified the investigation would be conducted alongside the Internal Affairs investigation due to Public Safety Officers Procedural Bill of Rights (POBAR) limitations and stated long term change comes from identifying problematic patterns and investigating all individual incidents would not be possible due to limited resources. Vice Chair Castillo Laughton asked whether the current policy allows for policy review and the benefits of adoption of a new ordinance. He expressed concern with removing the flexibility for the Commission to choose the approach and states the proposed changes would remove authority to investigate individual incidents. He asked whether there are any disadvantages to the hybrid model and for clarification regarding conflicts the current ordinance has with the City Charter. Independent Oversight Director Morse clarified the current policy allows for review and the proposed changes would add priority and framework for a pattern-and- practice model. He stated there would be resource constraints with every model, and regardless of the model, the director's role is purely advisory. Deputy City Manager Vazquez clarified the existing ordinance conflicts with the City Charter, as the Charter only allows for the appointment of up to three directors. She stated any additional directors would require an amendment to the Charter. Commissioner Said asked for clarification regarding the investigative process for the Independent Oversight Director and the cases that would be investigated. She expressed concern regarding the lack of resources to investigate all complaints, noting most involve officer-involved shootings or use-of-force resulting in death or serious injury. She stated the hybrid model offers a good balance, recommended additional training to provide more insight and reviewing tort claims to find common trends, and asked if the proposed changes address POBAR violation concerns. Independent Oversight Director Morse clarified the cases that would be investigated are officer-involved shootings or use-of-force resulting in death or great bodily injury and the investigation process would consist of responding to the scene, conducting a parallel investigation with Internal Affairs, writing a report of findings to the POLICE OVERSIGHT COMMISSION 4 SEPTEMBER 11, 2025 Commission, and submitting the Commission's recommendations to the City Manager. Deputy City Manager Vazquez stated the hybrid model would address the initial concerns regarding possible POBAR violations. Senior Assistant City Attorney Tamara Bogosian stated the hybrid model process would have to be reviewed to determine if any components need to be met and conferred with the Police Union. Commissioner Vega recommended the public watch the Council meeting of July 15, 2025 and spoke in support of the additional trainings and ride-along requirements proposed. He asked Independent Oversight Director T. Jack Morse to provide insight into the proposed trainings, whether the proposed changes presented at the July 15t" City Council meeting are considered pattern-and-practice investigations, whether there would be any other changes needed, and whether removing restrictions would put the City at risk of liability. Independent Oversight Director Morse spoke regarding his experience with ride- alongs and attending the reserve academy. He stated the proposed changes represent a pattern-and-practice model, and while he had concerns about its current restrictiveness, he acknowledged it would be an effective starting point due to resource limitations. Senior Assistant City Attorney Bogosian stated removing restrictions would affect privacy protections which does not allow those records to be disclosable to the public and the Independent Oversight Director would have to schedule closed session in order to discuss that information. Commissioner Perea asked whether the draft ordinance had been presented to City Council and emphasized the current ordinance is compliant with state law. He asked for clarification regarding the current issue between the Sheriff's office and the Sheriff's Oversight Commission, expressed concern regarding how that the proposed ordinance changes would strip the commission of its investigatory powers but appreciated the hybrid model. He expressed concern regarding previous Police Officer Associations Memorandums of Understanding (MOU) and would like the commission to retain the ability to make recommendations. He also requested the ordinance be updated to require consistent posting on the website of a redacted summary of complaints submitted to the Commission. Deputy City Manager Vazquez clarified the draft ordinance has not been presented to City Council and any recommendations by the Commission would be used to refine the language and create a draft ordinance to present to City Council. Assistant City Attorney Jonathan Martinez clarified that while the ordinance is currently in compliance with state law, issues could arise with the dual-track investigation, which might violate POBAR, therefore, the amendments are intended to create a process that avoids the possibility of lawsuits. POLICE OVERSIGHT COMMISSION 5 SEPTEMBER 11, 2025 Independent Oversight Director Morse stated the case between the Sheriff's office and the Sheriff's Oversight Commission is regarding Penal Code 832.7. and is currently being litigated. Senior Assistant City AttorneyBogosian clarified thatalthough the Commission may discuss the MOU, they must avoid making suggestions, changes, or otherwise interfering with the City Manager's right to negotiate, as the City Charter sets the terms of that authority. Chair Carpenter voiced concern that previous Commission recommendations were not reflected in the proposed ordinance changes and spoke in favor of the hybrid model presented to the Commission. Commissioner Mejia expressed concern with instances where culture is built into department practices and trainings and asked whether there was a way to ensure mechanisms for accountability. She voiced concern regarding required ride-alongs and requested legal protections for Commissioners when they participate. She recommended adding the scope of work to the Commission's bylaws instead of changing the ordinance to avoid stripping the Commission of its power, and asked whether the changes proposed by the Ad Hoc committee would remove the Commission's investigative powers. Independent Oversight Director Morse stated the pattern-and-practice model is the most beneficial, clarifying that the Ad Hoc changes permit pattern-and-practice investigations but not individual ones, and stated this revised structure would still allow the Director to review Internal Affairs findings and issue recommendations. Vice Chair Castillo Laughton asked whether the auditor model allows for the review of individual complaints and whether the Independent Oversight Director's input would be factored into the final decision of the findings. He expressed concern regarding removing the Commission's ability to give recommendation on individual cases and recommended the Commission be allowed to operate under the current ordinance first to determine if the existing process works before implementing the limitations of the auditor model. Independent Oversight Director Morse confirmed the Independent Oversight Director would be able to review individual complaints after Internal Affairs concludes its investigation and issue recommendations based on the findings, but would not be able to conduct a parallel investigation. He confirmed the auditor model would not allow for recommendations on individual cases. Discussion ensued regarding the process and restrictions of the auditor model investigation. Commissioner Said spoke regarding prioritization of complaints and the potential for an overburdened workload under the investigatory model. She added that any pattern of overly long Internal Affairs investigations should be specifically looked into. Deputy Chief Andrade stated the Police Department is fully prepared to support the Council's decision and adjust as needed in order to be effective, whether that be POLICE OVERSIGHT COMMISSION 6 SEPTEMBER 11, 2025 staff changes or putting safe guards in place to ensure Internal Affairs investigations do not reach the one-year statute of limitations. Commissioner Perea requested a copy of the letter Commissioner Carpenter wrote regarding the proposed ordinance changes and requested clarification regarding the process for distributing a commissioner's correspondence from the City Manager's Office to the rest of the Commission. He stated his belief that the hybrid model better reflects the resources available to the Commission, and requested officer threats of bodily harm and sexual harassment complaints against a member of the public be investigated. He also asked for clarification regarding the deciding factor used to determine which complaints the Commission investigates and expressed his wish to maintain some investigatory power. Assistant City Attorney Martinez stated that because bylaws have not yet been adopted, staff is still working on establishing policies. He clarified the Director and Commission will not automatically investigate every complaint, rather the Commission must first pass a majority vote to direct the Director on which complaint to investigate. Commissioner Vega requested clarification on who originally requested the ordinance amendments and spoke regarding the potential ramifications of conducting an improper investigation. Deputy City Manager Vazquez clarified City staff worked collaboratively to request the amendments, not the City Council Chair Carpenter inquired whether the Commission would see a draft of the ordinance before it is presented to the City Council. Deputy City Manager Vazquez spoke regarding Council's discretion to amend the ordinance and indicate the Commission's roles and responsibility. ***END OF STUDY SESSION*** STAFF COMMENTS MINUTES: None. COMMISSIONER COMMENTS MINUTES: Commissioner Gawronski requested a key of the acronyms used throughout the ordinance to facilitate her review. Commissioner Mejia inquired regarding the use of her personal email to conduct City business, the feasibility of having a City issued email address published, and suggested investigating the Noe Rodriguez incident under the guidance of the current ordinance. She commented on allegations that Internal Affairs has deleted footage and stressed the importance of trust between the community and Internal Affairs. POLICE OVERSIGHT COMMISSION 7 SEPTEMBER 11, 2025 Commissioner Perea spoke in support of the hybrid model and the need to maintain investigatory power, echoed Commissioner Mejia's comments regarding the Noe Rodriguez investigation, and reported he will be requesting to agendize a public hearing at the October meeting related to the Police Departments use of military equipment at the June protests. He commented on recent Supreme Court ruling on Noem v. Vasquez-Perdomo and how the decision will affect many City residents. Commissioner Said thanked staff and the public for their input and participation. Commissioner Vega thanked staff for their hard work and stated his preference for the pattern-and-practice investigation model. He stated that regardless of the model that is implemented, the Commission will do great work and should not wait for City Council to approve the ordinance. Vice Chair Castillo Laughton thanked everyone for the productive dialogue, and thanked Independent Oversight Director T. Jack Morse for his in-depth presentation. He spoke in opposition to the ordinance amendment proposed by the AdHoc, indicated that if a change must be made he is in favor of the hybrid model, and requested clarification on the Independent Oversight Director's ability to investigate the Noe Rodriguez incident Assistant City Attorney Jonathan Martinez stated the Noe Rodriguez incident is currently being investigated by the Attorney General and due to existing internal policies and procedures, the City is unable to continue its own investigation until the Attorney General's investigation is complete. Chair Carpenter stated he is not in favor of the evisceration of the original ordinance and hopes the Commission can reach a consensus to move the issue forward. ADJOURNMENT-Adjourn the Police Oversight Commission Meeting. MINUTES: Chair Carpenter adjourned the Police Oversight Commission meeting at 8:02 P.M. The next meeting of the Police Oversight Commission is scheduled for October 9, 2025 at 5:00 P.M. Respectfully submitted: / l i i Y. � al Re o din ecretary POLICE OVERSIGHT COMMISSION 8 SEPTEMBER 11, 2025